Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

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Ernildir
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Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Ernildir » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:20 pm

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Ranger's Apprentice book series, but I'm hoping that some of our weaponsmiths are. ;) In the series, the Rangers wield (aside from the primary weapon of a longbow) a saxe knife and a smaller knife balanced for throwing. If any of you are familiar with the series and are experienced with forging throwing knives and saxe knives, as well as experienced in leatherworking, I would be very interested in placing an order for a replica of these weapons in their "double knife scabbard". If any of you would be interested in crafting this order for me, but are unfamiliar with the series, I can do my best to describe the knives and scabbard for you.

Great series, by the way. If it's unfamiliar to you, you should read it. :)

Thanks.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Elevorn » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:44 pm

I would very much like to see this as well! I LOVE the Ranger's Apprentice series! They are really good books for everyone. Everything that John Flanagan writes in his books is mostly real because he does most of the things that Will, the main character, does in the books like archery and knife throwing.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Dinendir. » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:05 pm

I'll agree, that series is amazing. Ernildhir, if you ever get these, you have to post some pictures. I'm actually looking for a set myself.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Willrett » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:56 pm

Same here and I was talking with some today who is going to make me some more throwing knives but I don't know if they would be good for the fighting style he uses in the books. So I may have some throwing knives for sale in the near future but I don't know about the rest.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Dinendir. » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:20 am

According to Ralph Thorn, you could have a combat knife that doubles as your throwing knife. I've dabbled with his style of throwing, and I can vouch that it works extremely well so far. And I was using a tanto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji1nBmcK ... re=related

A short video explaining his style. It was really helpful to me.
8)
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Willrett » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:16 pm

Cool video that will help alot.


This was what I found doing a quick search but of course it would just be a basic pattern.

http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Case-37 ... 991/Cat/19
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby kaelln » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:57 pm

Belbarad: Cool video! I once read a book, though, that suggested that throwing knives in combat was tantamount to throwing away your weapon and giving it to your opponent. Oh yeah, that was in Eldest, by Christopher Paolini, the second book in the Eregon series. Still, it's an impressive skill, and worth experimenting with at the very least!

Willrett: There is also the Finnish leuku/puukko coupling, as seen here:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/sho ... ombination

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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Willrett » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:30 pm

even better looking thanks Kaelln
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Dinendir. » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:19 pm

kaelln wrote:Belbarad: Cool video! I once read a book, though, that suggested that throwing knives in combat was tantamount to throwing away your weapon and giving it to your opponent. Oh yeah, that was in Eldest, by Christopher Paolini, the second book in the Eregon series. Still, it's an impressive skill, and worth experimenting with at the very least!


I'm kinda on the fence on that one. I don't want to throw a perfectly good weapon, but if it was paramount to stab that one guy that's just 3 feet too far away, you know ... :mrgreen:

Either way, in a fight, I don't think it'd come in handy unless it was an extreme circumstance.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Greg » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:52 pm

Comparing the way Flanagan describes his knives to practicality, the weapons WOULD work well together, to a certain degree, but a few allowances should be made.

For starters, the Seax he describes would work best (if intended to block the strike of the much heavier sword) if it were a Broken-back seax.

The throwing knife he describes is a fairly run-of-the-mill standard, having a leaf blade with a substantial tip to drive the point home. That being said, the throwing knife would need to be a good deal larger than what many would typically imagine; it'd need to be nearly 7-8" long, if not more, to be able to adequately provide the defensive posture he describes. Crossing the blades to block is perfectly fine, but a short throwing knife would make blocking rather hazardous, since the surface being used to block would be limited by its length.

I've never liked the idea of the double knife scabbard, due to the fact that drawing both of them to use Falanagan's aptly named "Double-knife-defense" would require either reaching all the way around one's body with his offhand, or drawing them both in one hand and passing off the throwing knife to the offhand, both of which are slow and rather cumbersome. I'd rather have them separate on my person, much as I have my dagger and how I have planned my utility/backup knife. The dagger is on my belt in the front, where both hands have easy access to it in a variety of grips, while the other, the utility knife, is going to be mounted on my scabbard. It makes drawing them both faster and easier.

I, personally, am a fan of the series, and honestly can't believe how long it's taken for a topic like this to come up. I like the series, but the double-knife dealie-o isn't my cup of tea. I hope somebody can get a practical design going and get their hands on a pair, if only so we can see how well they do together! Good luck to you all! If anybody gets a pair and wants a knife scabbard made, I'd be glad to help.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Dinendir. » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:35 pm

Greg wrote:Comparing the way Flanagan describes his knives to practicality, the weapons WOULD work well together, to a certain degree, but a few allowances should be made.

For starters, the Seax he describes would work best (if intended to block the strike of the much heavier sword) if it were a Broken-back seax.


This, I highly agree with. I've always thought of it as a broken-back seax anyways.

Greg wrote:The throwing knife he describes is a fairly run-of-the-mill standard, having a leaf blade with a substantial tip to drive the point home. That being said, the throwing knife would need to be a good deal larger than what many would typically imagine; it'd need to be nearly 7-8" long, if not more, to be able to adequately provide the defensive posture he describes. Crossing the blades to block is perfectly fine, but a short throwing knife would make blocking rather hazardous, since the surface being used to block would be limited by its length.


Again, I agree. I was thinking he meant a larger knife anyways, and with the Thorn style of throwing I posted above, this would work perfectly.

Greg wrote:I've never liked the idea of the double knife scabbard, due to the fact that drawing both of them to use Falanagan's aptly named "Double-knife-defense" would require either reaching all the way around one's body with his offhand, or drawing them both in one hand and passing off the throwing knife to the offhand, both of which are slow and rather cumbersome. I'd rather have them separate on my person, much as I have my dagger and how I have planned my utility/backup knife. The dagger is on my belt in the front, where both hands have easy access to it in a variety of grips, while the other, the utility knife, is going to be mounted on my scabbard. It makes drawing them both faster and easier.


This is about the only issue I had with it. With a sword, you are still reaching around your body with your main hand, which is where I assumed the scabbard to be (left hip if you're right handed, vice-versa). So, say I'm right handed, and the double scabbard is on my left hip, it makes it easier to draw the seax knife. The other knife wouldn't be and issue either, as my left hand is already on the hilt of it anyways. Plus, it sits lower, making it easier to draw. Imagine drawing the seax from your left hip with your right hand. Now turn your left hand until the thumb is facing downward. Reach about 4 inches below your belt, and pantomime drawing a knife with an 8 inch blade and spinning your hand back the way it should face. That seems easier to me.

Just my idea on that. :D

Greg wrote:I, personally, am a fan of the series, and honestly can't believe how long it's taken for a topic like this to come up. I like the series, but the double-knife dealie-o isn't my cup of tea. I hope somebody can get a practical design going and get their hands on a pair, if only so we can see how well they do together! Good luck to you all! If anybody gets a pair and wants a knife scabbard made, I'd be glad to help.


I loved the series. I'm starting to collect them all in paperback, and I wish the last two would come out in America already. I'm not knocking your opinion, btw, just giving my two cents to the ideas you had about it.
8)
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Greg » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:50 pm

Eh, I'm not worried. The main reason I had an issue with the double-knife scabbard was that I though it was specifically mentioned that it was on the dominant-hand side, such so that the hand could "drop down to the scabbard naturally" or something similar to my not-quite accurate quote.

I can see keeping it on the offhand side, as you say, being reasonable. I just don't like reaching all the way across with my offhand; doesn't feel right.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Dinendir. » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:57 pm

Reaching across with my dominant hand is perfect, and I will def. agree with the offhand reach around thing. It feels too awkward. It'd be perfect if it sat on your offhand side so you could reach around with your dominant hand.

Now that we have that all squeezed out in discussion, I'd love to see it happen.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Peter Remling » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:27 pm

I hav'nt read the series but for a double draw knife sheath,you back the scabbard sit on the small of the back. Each knife would be canted toward the outside, the left hand knifeto the left and the right hand knife toward the right hand. Picture a X strapped to the back of your belt.
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Re: Ranger's Apprentice Style Saxe Knife and Throwing Knife

Postby Willrett » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:40 am

The series is great, and I agree the next to need to come out in the states.

I didn't think about what side it would be on but reaching across with the dominant hand does make since. What I said before about the style not working was because I was about a smaller size throwing knife.

Well I have one of the 12 in cold steel sax that I am in the slow process of sanding all the black off of and will be redoing the handle when that is finished. After its finished I will be making a scabbard for it So I will start looking for a good throwing knife, maybe somthing like this.
http://www.crazycrow.com/mm5/merchant.m ... ange_high=

But what about weight?? Any ideas??
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