Any Éothéod

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Eólfur
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Any Éothéod

Post by Eólfur »

So I have been delving into re-reading the books, poking through the forum and the newsletters to get myself better acquainted with Middle Earth cultures, the Éothéod is one that is sticking out for me right now as a possible impression. Thinking sometime in the middle to end of when they were living in & around Framsburg near the head of the Anduin. So about T.A 2000 to 2400 (I'll nail down a specific time frame later on). Felt it was slightly appropriate given my being near the source of the Mississippi River here in Minnesota.

Is there anyone else who is doing a impression/persona from that time/area? Any suggestions for source materials to delve into and read?
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Cimrandir »

Ah, that’s super cool! I’m unaware of anybody here portraying that culture and period. If I were to tackle it, I’d probably start with the early Anglo-Saxon as a base (5th-6th c. vs say 9th-10th as the later Rohirrim), maybe some Migration/Vendel period, and then perhaps a little prehistoric to give it an older feel. Like the Uffington White Horse perhaps. Just my basic impression.
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Eólfur
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Eólfur »

Cimrandir wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:41 pm Ah, that’s super cool! I’m unaware of anybody here portraying that culture and period. If I were to tackle it, I’d probably start with the early Anglo-Saxon as a base (5th-6th c. vs say 9th-10th as the later Rohirrim), maybe some Migration/Vendel period, and then perhaps a little prehistoric to give it an older feel. Like the Uffington White Horse perhaps. Just my basic impression.
Hahahaha! Seriously, get out of my head! Was thinking Sutton Hoo & Valsgarde as examples for the base. One thing I was looking into is adding a little flare from the Magyar/Hungarian culture from that era as well as they are primarily horse people. I like the addition of some of the earlier stuff being thrown in there. Some of the older rock art in Sweden & Gotland (or even Slavic) would give some of that feel to it as well.

Well that pretty much settles it. I'll go with that for an impression. Won't be too much of a stretch with most of my Iron Age Viking kit that I currently have. One of my fellow reenactors does a Magyar persona/impression, so I can lean on him for some of the research & resources.
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Cimrandir »

Ooh, I didn’t even consider the Magyar! That would be a good addition. Maybe Scythian but that might be a little further East?
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Udwin »

Always exciting to see folks branching out from the late Third Age, as well as building impressions that fit their local geography; I think an Eotheod rider from the wells of Langflood would totally fit the headwaters of the US's Great River.
And I would agree that Scythian might be too foreign an influence for a Northman impression. But they'd be perfect if someone wanted to interpret the Wainriders or Balchoth!
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Cimrandir »

Yeah, as soon as I said it, I figured not. I just had my mind on the whole Horse Lord angle haha :lol: .
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Eólfur »

Yeah, that is why I thought of Magyar as well, to add in that stronger horse based lifestyle. I eill need to be cautious as to what I ass in so as not to stray too far in look and feel.
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Elleth »

Honestly, some of that proto-Indo-European stuff already reads almost Saxon as it is - the grave mounds particularly.

I don't know what the state of the research was when Tolkien was writing, but I somewhat suspect the "ancient sorta-Saxon horsemen out on the open plains" framing of the Rohirrim was a deliberate nod to that more ancient past.
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Cimrandir »

I really do need to read more about the Indo-Europeans. I've got a few books on that culture but I haven't started any of them. At a cursory glance, they seem quite Middle-earthy!
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Eofor »

Personally I would be wary of going to far east with such an impression, of course they have the equestrian tradition link to the Rohirrim but in most aspects of warfare and gear they differ significantly.

From a gear evolution point of view you could consider embracing the great bog burials of Thorsberg and Nydam as they are the ancestors of the Saxons that the Rohirrim are based on. There is a huge amount of material from these sites and it feasibly looks like something a slightly less advanced or wealthy Rohan would use.

Alternatively (and this would be my choice) you could look at the Svear, the Swedes of the migration period. Now I know that at first glance they don't appear to be very Rohirrim but the culture at that stage is very similar to the Anglo Saxon one in lots of ways but notably..... they love horses! The 6th century Goth scholar Jordanes for example, wrote that the Swedes had the best horses beside the Thuringians.

From material records there are multiple graves of mounted warriors found with stirrups and saddle ornaments in gilded bronze with encrusted garnets. Off the top of my head the Vendel 14 grave had equestrian equipment, the leg armour found in Valsgarde 8 suggests the warrior buried there fought on horseback, and for a further link between the Anglo Saxons and the Svear the decorative panels on the various Svear helmets are comparable with the ones on the Sutton Hoo helm and from the Stafffordshire hoard which show mounted warriors riding down foes.

So you have a horse loving culture, from the north, with gear identical to the Anglo Saxons at the same time. It seems an ideal choice to base Eorl and his followers on.


Here are a few images of Gamla Uppsala, the burial ground of the Svear kings to support my proposition.


The burial mounds as they stand today

Image

An artists rendering of what they may have looked like in the period

Image

A composite model of Gamla Uppsala from the museum there

Image

And lastly a photo of the sign there that I took a few years back, the area is believed to have been used for ritual horse racing, I think I have a few papers on this somewhere.

Image
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Eofor »

So I have had a bit of time to ponder this as I am a bit unwell. I started to think of the best place to gain detailed information as far back as I could. Here is some more food for thought.

Baldor, son of Brego, son of Eorl was born the year before Eorls death 2544 which is 34 years after the Rorhirrim rode out of the north to the battle at the field of Celebrant.

When his body is discovered on the paths of the dead the following description is given
"...the bones of a mighty man. He had been clad in mail, and still his harness lay there whole; for the cavern's air was as dry as dust, and his hauberk was gilded. His belt was of gold and garnets, and rich with gold was the helm upon his bony head face downward on the floor.


Here are a couple of high end Svear reenactors from the group Swehanaz based in the UK compared to a similar level Magyar portrayal.

David Huggins

Image

Alex Haigh

Image

And Haraszti Zsigmond

Image
Last edited by Eofor on Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any Éothéod

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Eofor wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 5:03 am So I have had a bit of time to ponder this as I am a bit unwell. I started to think of the best place to gain detailed information as far back as I could. Here is some more food for thought.

Baldor, son of Brego, son of Eorl was born the year before Eorls death 2544 which is 34 years after the Rorhirrim rode out of the north to the battle at the field of Celebrant.

When his body is discovered on the paths of the dead the following description is given
"...the bones of a mighty man. He had been clad in mail, and still his harness lay there whole; for the cavern's air was as dry as dust, and his hauberk was gilded. His belt was of gold and garnets, and rich with gold was the helm upon his bony head face downward on the floor.


......"images removed"
This is excellent, thank you Eofor. I'll dig into that more.
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Cimrandir »

Eofor wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 5:03 am So I have had a bit of time to ponder this as I am a bit unwell. I started to think of the best place to gain detailed information as far back as I could. Here is some more food for thought.

Baldor, son of Brego, son of Eorl was born the year before Eorls death 2544 which is 34 years after the Rorhirrim rode out of the north to the battle at the field of Celebrant.

When his body is discovered on the paths of the dead the following description is given
"...the bones of a mighty man. He had been clad in mail, and still his harness lay there whole; for the cavern's air was as dry as dust, and his hauberk was gilded. His belt was of gold and garnets, and rich with gold was the helm upon his bony head face downward on the floor.


Here are a couple of high end Svear reenactors from the group Swehanaz based in the UK compared to a similar level Magyar portrayal.
+1 for David Huggins and the others. Super nice fellows and always willing to lend help on references and resources.

Eofor wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 12:40 am Personally I would be wary of going to far east with such an impression, of course they have the equestrian tradition link to the Rohirrim but in most aspects of warfare and gear they differ significantly.

From a gear evolution point of view you could consider embracing the great bog burials of Thorsberg and Nydam as they are the ancestors of the Saxons that the Rohirrim are based on. There is a huge amount of material from these sites and it feasibly looks like something a slightly less advanced or wealthy Rohan would use.

Alternatively (and this would be my choice) you could look at the Svear, the Swedes of the migration period. Now I know that at first glance they don't appear to be very Rohirrim but the culture at that stage is very similar to the Anglo Saxon one in lots of ways but notably..... they love horses! The 6th century Goth scholar Jordanes for example, wrote that the Swedes had the best horses beside the Thuringians.

From material records there are multiple graves of mounted warriors found with stirrups and saddle ornaments in gilded bronze with encrusted garnets. Off the top of my head the Vendel 14 grave had equestrian equipment, the leg armour found in Valsgarde 8 suggests the warrior buried there fought on horseback, and for a further link between the Anglo Saxons and the Svear the decorative panels on the various Svear helmets are comparable with the ones on the Sutton Hoo helm and from the Stafffordshire hoard which show mounted warriors riding down foes.

So you have a horse loving culture, from the north, with gear identical to the Anglo Saxons at the same time. It seems an ideal choice to base Eorl and his followers on.
Leave to Eofor to drop the Knowledge Bomb! I had not heard much of the Svear before and it's super cool! Thank you for the explanation and I am in definite agreement that they are very Rohirrim-like! Now I'm embarrassed to have even brought up the Magyar and Scythians.
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Re: Any Éothéod

Post by Eofor »

Cimrandir wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:10 pm Leave to Eofor to drop the Knowledge Bomb! I had not heard much of the Svear before and it's super cool! Thank you for the explanation and I am in definite agreement that they are very Rohirrim-like! Now I'm embarrassed to have even brought up the Magyar and Scythians.
Thank you my friend! but you shouldn't feel embarrassed. The Rohirrim have skilled horse archers in their ranks so it's not an illogical place to look for horse archer gear.
For seven days without eating or sleeping the new king sat, until he stood and cried "This cannot be borne!"!
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